Lateral G Question.

"Nighthawkwill7, Hoon Depot Manager" (Nighthawkwill7) 09/23/2013 at 19:08 • Filed to: None

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As enthusiasts, we love specs and besides 0-60, quarter miles, top speeds and 'Ring times, automakers like to boast about their vehicles road holding abilities.

I'm just wondering, how much of a car's skid pad performance is down to chassis or suspension development and how much of it is just putting on good rubber. I'm mean, could I just put some R-compounds on my Malibu and expect it to pull 1G on the skidpad? Maybe not, but it still.

dogisbadob > Nighthawkwill7, Hoon Depot Manager 09/23/2013 at 19:12

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Tires do count for quite a bit.and it may very well be possible to get 1g in your Malibu just by switching tires

Paul, Man of Mustangs > Nighthawkwill7, Hoon Depot Manager 09/23/2013 at 19:13

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I'd say it's about 50/50. A good suspension can make crap tires feel like driving a Miata, while a set of Hoosiers on a boat will still feel like you're wallowing through corners, and you'll still have to set up your turns a second sooner than you would have to otherwise.

f86sabre > Nighthawkwill7, Hoon Depot Manager 09/23/2013 at 19:13

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Tires are worth a lot. Just think about F-1. When they wanted to slow the cars they put grooves on the tires. Then they went to spec tires. Those who are around GrandAm figure that if they put the spec Continental tires from the DPs on the P2s they might loose up to 2 seconds a lap. That said, tires aren't everything.

Brian, The Life of > Nighthawkwill7, Hoon Depot Manager 09/23/2013 at 19:14

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Tires help a lot but it is the full package that determines skidpad performance.

And, no, tires alone prolly won't make your 'Boo pull a full G.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Nighthawkwill7, Hoon Depot Manager 09/23/2013 at 19:16

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You are going to need a good suspension set up to help control the tires. That being said, if you have crappy tires all the suspension work is in vain. So I would say tires are of equal importance as the suspension. Just remember a Lincoln laid down a slalom time equal to a 911 with slicks.

offroadkarter > Nighthawkwill7, Hoon Depot Manager 09/23/2013 at 19:17

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I'm no handling expert, but logically thinking, if a car has very sticky tires but a lot of body roll, the weight of the body being tossed around at that high turning speed will cause it to slide out and understeer.

Nighthawkwill7, Hoon Depot Manager > Paul, Man of Mustangs 09/23/2013 at 19:20

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Yeah. I remember reading in Evo a while back, a comparison between a Techart and Gemballa modified 911. The commented on how the Gemballa was like custard in that it stuck well to the road but the suspension setup seemed wonky and underdeveloped relative to the power the car was putting down. That and the recent news about the new CTS pulling .97g on the skidpad had me thinking about this.

Paul, Man of Mustangs > Nighthawkwill7, Hoon Depot Manager 09/23/2013 at 19:24

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Most of the handling improvements in modern sports cars are because of stickier tires, but that may be because they've run out of geometry improvements for plebeian types. They still insist on building in understeer to protect inexperienced drivers.

Nighthawkwill7, Hoon Depot Manager > Brian, The Life of 09/23/2013 at 19:26

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I'm fairly certain my Chevy would need more than just tires for that. I was just curious as to how a car with sticky tires but loads of body roll would perform versus a well setup chassis with mediocre tires.

Just4GP > f86sabre 09/23/2013 at 19:32

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I'd have to disagree with the "tires aren't everything" statement. I went from a set of Yokohamas to some Michelin Pilot Super Sports and the difference is like night and day. On the Yoko's, my CL would spin the rear tires like crazy and going into a turn too fast got really scary. With the PSS's, the car hooks up much much quicker.The acceleration is amazing and I have not yet, (fingers crossed that I don't) had understeer going into a corner. I'm able to push my car to new limits. Keep in mind that my car weighs in a little over 5000 pounds and produces over 500 pound-feet of torque, so it definitely gives the tires a workout.

Brian, The Life of > Nighthawkwill7, Hoon Depot Manager 09/23/2013 at 19:35

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Tires are the single most effective upgrade you can do to improve handling, full stop. You won't see a more noticeable improvement with any single suspension upgrade.

f86sabre > Just4GP 09/23/2013 at 21:14

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I think you missed everything I wrote but the last line. Tires are hugely important. My examples were intended to illustrate that. There are other factors that do come into play such as suspension settings, weight distribution and such that can't be totally ignored. Tires are massive, but if they were everything we would be riding something like this:

bhardoin > Nighthawkwill7, Hoon Depot Manager 09/23/2013 at 22:03

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Well, skidpad generally doesn't have the bumps and divots that a road has, so it doesn't relate to road performance totally. But it does kind of show the maximum potential of a car - mostly due to weight and tires.